Ayden LOVES Logan.
Logan is the first person Ayden wants to see in the morning and he never goes to bed at night without giving Logan a hug and a kiss. Ayden brings Logan toys all day long and cheers him on while he learns new skills. Logan loves Ayden too and already looks up to him. They are yin and yang (opposites that compliment one another) and already BFFs.
But there are moments, whether triggered by impulse control challenges, jealousy, cause and effect curiosity, limit testing, or what have you, where Ayden will hurt Logan on purpose.
As a mother this is a really difficult position to be in. If it were someone else's baby I would be disappointed in Ayden's actions but I would also still be on his side completely. I would be able to level headedly guide him through the situation, give him fair consequences, and help him learn from it.
When it is Logan who is hurt, however, my reaction is quite different. Mama bear is summoned against one baby in the defense of another. My body and mind get focused on feircly protecting my baby from the source of his harm which in this case is unfortunately my other child. This is probably the most difficult feeling as a mother of two.
When this happens I don't say anything right away but just frown my biggest mad Mama Bear frown, scoop Logan up, walk into another room, shut the door and sit with my back against it (our rental cottage does not have working locks). I comfort Logan and work hard on calming my mama bear rage. The last thing I want is a full on Mama Bear flare up on one of my own children. It only takes a couple of minutes but it is enough for all of us. It allows enough time for Logan and me to both calm down and it is long enough for Ayden to get worked up about being shut out and alone (our most powerful consequence for a boy who is difficult to discipline). Once this chain of events has happened I open the door a crack, when Ayden decides to come join us I am able to speak to him about what happened with a level head. I remind him of his specific action that hurt Logan and tell him it was not kind nor was it a right choice. I remind him that Logan is just a baby and that we all need to take care of one another and that hurting each other on purpose is never allowed. Then I ask, "How can you make this right?" We have asked this question enough now that he knows what to do. He walks up to Logan, hugs him, kisses wherever he hurt him and says, "I'm sorry I did that." And then we move on.
Wiping his slate clean is a challenge but it has to be done. It is my job to guide him while offering a continuous dose of unconditional love, just as I would if t had been someone else's baby. If I am unable in a moment I step away until I can. If for some reason I react before thinking to step away and cool down then Mama Bear asks herself, "How can you make this right?" and then models exactly what is expected of Ayden after the question is asked.
How do you handle your Mama Bear conflicts?
~Sarah
Flashback! Here's what we were up to one year ago today: "Hen party"
Two years ago today: "Abstract Art"
And three years ago today: "A Day Of Firsts"
How do you handle your Mama Bear conflicts?
~Sarah
Flashback! Here's what we were up to one year ago today: "Hen party"
Two years ago today: "Abstract Art"
And three years ago today: "A Day Of Firsts"
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Ayden is a cute little boy that is not to blame for anything. It is entirely and absolutely your fault. You spoil him but offer nothing but weak consequences and laughable punishments. Right now it is all ok, he is in your home only terrorizing your family but one day he will be out in the world and grown up Ayden is someone we should all fear; I grieve for his victims and am saddened by his shock when he has to face real legal ramifications for you turning your son into a monster. And go ahead and delete this as I know you will but I hope you remember my words when what you think now as impossible actually does happen and all because you refuse you own responsibility for raising your child with real boundaries of right and wrong.
ReplyDeleteWow... It's a little difficult to form accurate opinions about people you have never spent time with in person.
DeleteAnd Sophia who can we blame for turning you into a monster? I can only assume it was your parents, who were, quite clearly, very quick to point out what they felt were the flaws of their friends and acquaintances (as well as yours perhaps?).
ReplyDeleteLack of parental relationship is one of, if not THE most powerful behavior management tools in a parents tool belt. If you are choosing instead to yell, lecture, or spank you are choosing to give even more of your relationship to your child (reinforcing the idea that bad behavior equates to more time with mom). If you choose to take away privileges or favorite toys you are failing to take away your child's favorite toy AND privilege, you.
Finally, I would like to point out that children who are raised in households where yelling, spanking, lecturing, and toy revoking is the norm are MUCH more difficult to manage once they are in school. Teachers cannot employ the same "punishments" that many parents utilize making their children extremely difficult to manage. I would argue that THOSE children are the true terrors in the real world.
I could not have said it better myself, Whitney. Thank you. And since you are one of my ONLY readers who's daughter loves Ayden and plays with him on a regular basis, I think you would know about Ayden and the effects of our parenting better than anyone.
Delete*Parents'
ReplyDeleteI think the weak consequences you give him are the responsible for him to do it over and over again. If Ayden would hitten at least once, he could feel the pain he causes to his poor little bro, and next time he would probably think twice before hitting poor Logan. I'm not telling you have to hurt your little bad boy, but he needs to feel how Logan feels when get hurts, as long as you protect Ayden, you are exposing Logan to the danger of being hurt several times.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteI think hitting him would make him stop because he would be scared for himself to do it again rather than teaching him what it feels like. That thinking is a little complex for an ego-centrical 3 year old... We believe our method truly TEACHES something which can take time.
DeleteOh Whitney, sigh, I would value your words if Ayden had only hit once, twice, three times even and the disciplinary actions you or Sarah is describing worked and he quit but that is not what is happening. It is not working. Sarah has been dealing with Ayden hitting her, hitting David, hitting Logan (and other kids? that she herself said she doesn't care about other than to be disappointed in Ayden). At some point as a responsible loving parent you have to say that this is not acceptable because we are raising adults here that need our love and with that our loving discipline that actually stops the negative behavior instead of raising our children to laugh at pulling our hair while we cry. That is NOT normal behavior. It's scary. And in the future, Ayden (and his victims) will pay the price for bad parenting. Period.
ReplyDeleteSophia, please elaborate how you have stopped the hitting issue with your own children. I'm sure there are other parents reading this blog who would love your insight.
DeleteAyden stopped hitting us and other children a LONG time ago. I suppose there is more than one way to teach such lessons...
DeleteI'm sorry Anonymous but I don't agree with you there. Ayden won't learn by hitting him so he feels what it is like to be hit. That isn't parenting but abuse.
ReplyDeleteThis post was never intended to spark a debate on spanking but I strongly believe that children learn best through what is modeled for them. Hitting a child for hitting would send a very confusing message in my opinion.
DeleteI'm in shock by the comment above. Don't even let that enter your mind or heart. You are a wonderful mother who I look up to. Your patience with your boys and your positive parenting is admirable. Anyways... I feel this intense mama bear rage as well. You aren't alone. I try to react the same way you mentioned. I also read somewhere to talk with the little brother/sister about what happened in front of the big brother/sister. "Lauren, I am sorry Mallory hit you. I can see that really hurt and surprised you! Our hands are only used for hugs and high fives." The attention given to the "victim" usually causes her to rush over to try to make it better in order to gain some positive attention. Same sort of deal you use :) You are such a good mama.
ReplyDeleteThank you so much, Michelle. I am glad to have a friend who truly knows what it is like to parent a spirited child (or two!). Lucky for me I am confident in our parenting decisions (and also in the fact that Ayden is sweet and is NO monster) so the fact that someone can be so rude bothers me more than what she actually said. Talking to Logan works for Ayden too! It lets him know how Logan is feeling and also models the things he could be saying to make it right.
DeleteThere are many ways to discipline children that are very effective, not all of them pleasant, and unfortunately we as parents who love our children have to utilize some when negative behavior is not stopping with some of the more benign disciplines. A firm "No! No hitting." is often all that is needed to stop hitting as it puts a negative connotation to that particular action. Sadly for Ayden that is not helpful now as it was handled wrong (there are many times "ignoring it" could be useful in parental discipline but used for your child hitting you or anyone else borders on being neglectful) the very first time Ayden hit and Ayden didn't learn. And Sarah keeps using the same type reactions and discipline hoping for a different outcome... Ayden is a very smart little boy and he knows by now that Sarah removing herself from him for a couple of minutes means nothing; he knows she isn't leaving, he knows she will forgive him, and he knows she loves him. All of which is very good because I think this kind of discipline is far more harmful than more standard disciplines because you shouldn't use fear of losing you as a tool. "Timeout" if that is what you are calling that "Abandoning Discipline" (though I think it is very different) can be effective but has to be used carefully.
ReplyDeleteI understand, I guess, if you think I am anti-Ladniers but I'm not. I wouldn't waste my time reading or commenting if I didn't care. I'm amazed by Sarah's positivity, I admire David as a hard-worker for his family. Ayden is such a cute boy and Logan is an angel. But, no, I do not agree with a woman who says she loves her child so much but she refuses to give him his best chance in life by instilling in him right and wrong, and teaches him the reality of doing wrong.
I can't click on replies so I will just reply to some of Sarah's comments here...
Sarah's comment to mine... Sigh. I know you are angry so I won't belabor this other than to say that my comments are based on what you write (and thank goodness, you only write the more positive because trust me I don't want to know how bad it actually is) and that is enough to worry.
Sarah's comments to Whitney... Sarah that is just not true. He pulled your hair laughing not that long ago at all.
Sarah's comment to Michelle... I did not say Ayden is a monster. I said you are turning him into a monster, meaning when he is grown. Right now he is just a little boy who isn't being taught right from wrong.
BTW forming the opinion that I'm rude and being bothered by that rather than what I said is contradictory to your comment to me in that I shouldn't form opinions about you when I don't know you personally. According to you, you should focus only on what I'm saying and say my words are rude if you choose but frankly I won't care because I know my own heart and know that I am not saying any of this to be rude but truly think that you are misguided in your parenting style to your son that isn't responding to what you are doing presently.
Sophia, thank you for pointing out the tactic that is utilized by parents as a first attempt to correct unwanted behavior. You are very fortunate to have had children who who turned it around with a firm "no". I was hoping, however, since you had such strong opinions about how Ayden was being disciplined, that you would have some constructive advice on discipline when a parent's first line of defense wasn't working. Since you've been so lucky with your own kids I see now why you can't really give more details about discipline.
DeleteAs for the "abandoning discipline" that I mentioned, I suggest you read any of the research done by Howard Glasser (my favorite is The Nurtured Heart Approach).
Finally, (and then I'm done with this thread because I need to spring clean), I know you care about the Ladniers and made your comment out of concern. I would like you to consider how your comments came across. Imagine being in a parent teacher conference and the teacher tells you that you are turning your child into a monster via your parenting style and that everything is YOUR fault. I hardly think the teacher's words would make an impact in how you choose to parent, nor should they. Anyone who would approach the delicate subject of how another person disciplines their children with this disrespectful lack of tact isn't worth listening to.
Ugh, I had something typed out and when it went to post disappeared. :\ I'm going to try to remember what I had though. Kudos to you for sharing your life for the world to see. Ayden is THREE. In no way do his actions represent what he will be like when he is an adult. His behavior is NORMAL as he learns empathy and sorts out his feelings of not being the only child. It feels like some people are forgetting that he is three...as a society we are expecting too much from young children and not remembering that they are just kids. I am also an early educator, and we are taught that the victim is always consoled first. Situations with 2 teachers is ideal...one consoles while the other handles the aggressor. I would suspect this approach may be taken when David is around. There are plenty of children raised the same way or dealt with in pre-school situations the same way that turn out to be lovely people. So would I do things the same way as you, Sarah? I'm not sure (mostly because I'm not in your shoes), but you are doing what works for your family and can only picture Ayden being a kind, compassionate person as he grows. I think people are quick to judge when results aren't immediate or forget that this too shall pass. It takes time for a three year old to learn and understand...regardless of whether this technique is used or yelling or hitting or a time out spot, etc. Nothing will have a magical, immediate cure. Keep on Keepin' on! Also, I have a friend who has dealt/is dealing with this with her almost 4 year old and almost 1 year old. She's done all the "right" things...most of which correlate with Sophia's beliefs of firm no's and time outs and he still had moments because he's a kid, adjusting to a new life. What helped things improve really came down to the fact that his mom started taking a few other kids in her home, I think it was enough distraction for him having other peers, etc that he's not focused on his baby sister (who he also loves, plays with, gives toys, kisses, hugs, talks to with the sweetest little voice, etc). Have I mentioned yet that your child sounds completely NORMAL!? I know you know this, but it never hurts to hear it from someone else.
ReplyDeleteSophia, you don't know everything that Sarah is doing to discipline her child. Sarah only offers us a glimpse into her daily life, not a full documentary. It's impossible to scrutinize her actions nor is it anyone's business to do so. You have to understand that unsolicited advice is rude and obnoxious. Not only that, but your "advice" is the worst kind: full of judgement and frightening warnings with absolutely no constructive advice. Your opinions on other people's parenting is unwanted and inappropriate. Go away.
ReplyDeleteThank you.
DeleteKayla very well said. You're right, I am being too harsh in saying that a monster as an adult can be seen in a three year old's actions. I was trying to formulate my fear of my child in a world where a man grew up without boundaries as a child toward inflicting physical abuse into words and I did that badly. But I will never agree that this is normal behavior for a three year old that has no learning disabilities that would justify his inability to learn in over a year that hitting his family and others is not acceptable behavior. It isn't. Hitting, pulling hair, being mean to animals/pets etc... repeatedly... is just NOT normal and shouldn't be tolerated. And repeating the same discipline and expecting different results just does not make sense.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous, sigh, I have already said that my comments are from what is written, it's up there in the above comments if you would like to read again.
Sarah could put this blog as private or even turn off her comments but she chooses not to. My comment was not unsolicited either, Sarah often questions us and asks us to reply below so I felt justified and invited to comment about her mama bear conflict by stating that Ayden isn't to blame. I also honestly don't think that anyone would take the time to comment if they did not care and as I said above I do feel that I was wrong to say what Ayden would be like as an adult from actions of a three year old but that still does not wane my worry that his repeated actions are not normal and he should have a parent that cares enough to also be a proper disciplinarian. And I think that in itself is constructive advice so I don't really understand your comment in regards to that.
Whitney, As I stated there are many disciplinary devices available, I didn't realize you wanted a list.
ReplyDeleteIt's frustrating that you don't get this when you yourself just said, "thank you for pointing out the tactic that is utilized by parents as a first attempt to correct unwanted behavior". You said, saying NO! No hitting is a "first attempt" but that was not used with Ayden, he never got that opportunity to succeed in learning this because his hitting was ignored instead of reprimanded as Sarah told us last year that is the first attempt she was taking in the beginning. And as I stated above I agree with you and Kayla, what I said about "turning into a monster" was wrong, but I still stand by my words... Repeating the same discipline isn't working.
And I am not a teacher, I am sitting in my home reading on the great big internet where a woman puts information down in a blog and then asks a question and asks for comments and I gave it, I tried to be constructive, intelligent and above all caring of children as a whole... tact, hmm, I guess you are right, I failed there, so if you choose to believe I am disrespectful and not worth listening to then that is your prerogative.
In case you stumble upon this thread again, good luck with the cleaning. I did mine last weekend. The hard work pays off, it's wonderful!
There are so many things that I could say in response to all of this but I have more positive and productive things to do with my time. All I will say is that I think there has been a misunderstanding. I do not write about every moment of everyday. We have, in fact, been very firm with Ayden and it only fuels his fire. Until you have parented him specifically you simply don't know. As for everything else, we will just have to agree to disagree. And thank you for acknowledging that you could have utilized more tact in your comments.
DeleteIt's good that your Passive-Aggression could leave that comment out of your positive and productive day Sarah. I'm sure your tendencies to be snide and sneaky instead of saying what you mean and meaning what you say will slide something into your blog later like you always do.
ReplyDeleteYour comment does make me understand why you who reads all these parenting books still do not have the skills to help Ayden stop being abusive... You read but you do not see. You ignore the parts you choose not to see and change the parts you want to see just like you have done with what I've written.
I'm disappointed. The one thing I liked about you was your positive outlook but now I don't even think that is real, I think it is your facade that you use when it suits you. My first clue should have been that a truly positive person does not need to always and forever state that they are positive because their actions and words show their positivity and it is just felt. A positive person also gives the benefit of the doubt to others and does not attack them... and I am not talking about me (I feel you have right to resent me) but I have seen you attack others who in no way deserved it.
Anyway, I feel I wasted my time today (at least an hour off and on this morning) trying to help and I can see that I cannot. Best wishes.
A few things that occur to me: you clearly have no children; you are brimful of bitterness; you are lashing out at a total stranger over a subject about which you are clearly in total ignorance. What a very sad state of affairs. Can I suggest you please get up from your chair, leave your computer alone & go out into the real world? Good luck
DeleteAiden is not abusive. He's a toddler which clearly you know nothing about :/
DeleteWhen you eat paleo like Sarah does, you have very stable good moods. Stable blood sugars equals happy mood. When you are happy, its hard to get angry at anyone. Eat bad diet and yout feel crappier and yell at anyone.
ReplyDeleteIf nothing else can be gained from this post, at least we might all agree that taking time to think before we act is an invaluable skill and it is a skill that most 3 year olds have not mastered. I know I have not yet mastered it at 30! :) I do thank you for sharing your struggle in this area, Sarah. It makes me feel normal as I too struggle with conflicting feelings when my children are physical with one another. I don't believe it's their intention to hurt each other so much as an impulse to further their own pursuits (like for attention, a particular toy, etc.) I admit that it's hard to keep that in mind when what I see on the surface is one of my children being hurt by the other (not seriously, of course.) its very conflicting to say the least.
ReplyDeleteMaria I agree.
DeleteAyden and Logan are going to be absolutely fine Sophia- trust me. You're comments come across as unhinged and lacking in perspective
DeleteYesterday I left a comment to a woman about being a mama bear because she asked a question and my reaction after years of reading her blog was that her little three year old son was not to blame and she should not have mama bear reactions against him but reevaluate her own parental disciplining behaviors. And to be completely honest (and as I have stated in comments above) I also had the selfish reason of saying something in that I have fear for my own child (and everyone) having to live in a world where an adult man was raised as a child without boundaries toward physical abuse.
ReplyDeleteHonestly, I did know that my comment would not be seen favorable by every single person because if you read this blog than you would be a supporter/subscriber of Sarah, as I myself was before yesterday. Although I am surprised that not more people truly could see what I was saying, but I said to myself when I hit enter that I would not be one of those people that left a comment and then not have the backbone to stick around and reply to those that took the time to reply to me. I felt obligated to answer the replies and I did devote at least an hour yesterday doing this. I sincerely tried to conduct myself in an adult manner and not get into petty name-calling or feel obliged to those that attacked me personally but gave no merit to the actual topic which I felt I accomplished.
Other than late last night to Sarah I do actually feel I could have said it better but I just cannot abide dishonesty and it shorted my generally very long fuse but I will say that I didn't name call Sarah by saying she is passive-aggressive because it is not a name it is a behavior that Sarah clearly possesses because no one who isn't being passive-aggressive leaves a reply to say she won't waste time to reply. Come on people, be real here... I normal person would just not reply if they truly didn't want to waste their time, but Sarah didn't do that, no, Sarah was trying to belittle me in an indirect sneaky passive-aggressive way to say that she felt I was wasting my time; which honestly would be true, I have wasted my time because I was unhelpful but why not just say what you mean and mean what you say instead of being snide, underhanded and dishonest. Passive-aggression is just not a good color on anyone when it is easier to just let no answer be your answer which can be very powerful in and of itself or have the courage to say what you truly mean.
And just in case I wasn't clear in comments above I will once again say that "turning into a monster" wasn't to be taken literal as in a name-calling closet-dwelling boogeyman but I was using a word to describe a person turning into an adult who was harmful to society.
I am going to answer the replies that I have gotten overnight but after this I will no longer check this thread and be replying because I simply do not find it beneficial nor can I devote any time today to do this. I apologize to those that reply that actually have something that adds to the discussion and to those that feel compelled to be hateful to me then please do so with my best wishes if it somehow improves your day.
ReplyDeleteKateLivingit, I do have a daughter. Your words seem quite contradictory, because to you I am a stranger who you are lashing out at; however Sarah is a public blogger who I have read for years and she doesn't fit the definition of a stranger... stran·ger ˈstrānjər/ noun 1. a person whom one does not know or with whom one is not familiar. 2. a person who does not know, or is not known in, a particular place or community. And your suggestion is great advice and I suggest for you the same. Thank you, good luck to you also.
Girlygirl, Sarah hasn't been on a paleo only diet for a very long time but I do completely agree with you in that her attitude was better when stricter on that diet.
Maria, thank you for this comment because it has given me a lot to think about in regards to perhaps I am just misguided in my fear because I have only one child, perhaps even though my child has many friends and many cousins, etc... that that I have been extremely blessed to be around children that do not physically fight and perhaps I just got lucky that no children, mine or others physically hit me or anyone else I know.
Elizabeth, I hope so. I very much want to be wrong.
Sophia - I know you said you wouldn't be back not would you spend any more time on this subject, but as a supporter if Sarah's I do appreciate your apologies and your offers of clarification. I choose to believe that we all want what is best for our children so we can all relate on that subject. What Sarah was describing is a conflict of feeling the need to protect one of her children against another one of her children. That is a dilemma I could not relate to before I had more than one child and would have had no offers of wisdom on the subject before then. What u can say is that my children, for the most part, treat each other with respect and kindness especially in comparison to their trio of cousins. I can't speak on the disciplinary methods used for them, but they act with little self-control and little motivations for kindness. I like that when my children act out if impulse that I can reach into my sack and remind them that we love each other an don't want to hurt each other or make each other sad. That is very powerful, but not easy to remember in the heat of the moment. As someone who was spanked as a child I can tell you that even now, I have a hard time remembering not to turn physical with my kids because it can be easy to give in to impulse. Lets hope we are all doing our best to raise children who will be kind to each other and everyone they meet.
DeleteI would add that my children show remorse when they act out and their cousins do not. I don't think the act of being physical alone is an indicator of trouble in the future, but I do strongly believe a lack of remorse is a troubling sign.
DeleteSophia, I am sorry. I responded to comments yesterday while feeling emotional about the things you said. Some of the things you said, which I know you have now taken back, honestly hurt me and kept me from being able to see that you were only trying to help. That is exactly why I try very hard not to discipline while angry. I usually wait a day or two to respond to comments that trigger an emotional response and I will definitely be reinforcing that rule for myself again. I put myself and my parenting choices on the internet in hopes to help others know they are not alone with struggles as well as to celebrate the wonderful things in my life. I do not expect everyone to agree nor do I believe they should and I am also aware that I open myself up for judgement. When I said I had more positive and productive things to do I meant it very literally. I had actual, real life things to tend to (visiting a family member at the hospital, doing hive checks for my bees, folding about 4 loads of laundry that I had fallen behind on) things that bring joy and order to my life, family and home. Following this thread all day yesterday took a lot out of me mentally and emotionally and I really do not like to get sucked into a technological vortex that takes away from real life. It had nothing to do with you personally. I did feel frustrated that you don't actually understand our situation yet seem to know exactly how to fix it. If only your suggestions really were that easy and yes, you are lucky that you have never had to deal with physical children because in my years of experience teaching and my experience with Ayden, they are the most difficult behaviors to modify. I could tell that neither of us was going to agree with the other so that is why I said we were going to have to agree to disagree in hopes we could just move on. We have obviously had a great misunderstanding and we are both equally at fault for the direction it took. I am sorry for doing my part to keep it spiraling in a negative direction because I genuinely do believe in love, kindness and positivity. Please rest assured that, while I do feel it is normal for *some* children to be more physical than others, it is not mean that I think it is acceptable. We have tried MANY methods of discipline with Ayden (excluding spanking) that I have not always thought to update on or write about and the methods you suggested just do not work for him. We are doing our best and we will not stop until we help him channel his intensity in a positive direction. He has come from an 18 month old who chased our chickens around with his toy golf clubs to being a 3 year old who helps us give them their food and water everyday and snuggles baby chicks. That is great progress that we celebrate. He has been a challenge since the moment I went into labor with him and I am positive that will continue on in some way or another for the rest of his life. That does NOT make him a bad person, and we as his parents are up for the challenge. If anything I think it is going to make him an amazing and passionate adult. If you do have a second child, I honestly really do hope that you never have to experience what this post is about because it does not feel good.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteSarah, you have nothing to apologize about. Sophia's comment was harsh and she could've worded it with more compassion and words of wisdom instead. She could say she disagrees with your parenting. That's it. Man, she must be unhappy as a person or jealous. You are a wonderful mother and role model. Never let anyone get you down.
DeleteSarah, you have nothing to apologize about. Sophia's comment was harsh and she could've worded it with more compassion and words of wisdom instead. She could say she disagrees with your parenting. That's it. Man, she must be unhappy as a person or jealous. You are a wonderful mother and role model. Never let anyone get you down.
DeleteOkay enough now Sophia- this says so much more about your thoughts than about Sarah or her children- drop it
ReplyDelete